Talk:Michael Jordan

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Dyson, M. E. (1993). Be like Mike?: Michael Jordan and the pedagogy of desire. Cultural Studies, 7(1), 64–72.
Mathur, Lynette Knowles, et al. "The wealth effects associated with a celebrity endorser: The Michael Jordan phenomenon." Journal of Advertising Research, vol. 37, no. 3, May-June 1997, pp. 67+. Gale Academic OneFile.

Comment: This search yields eight additional articles in the Sociology of Sport Journal about Michael Jordan.

MVP and DPOY

In the "Pistons Roadblock" section, it reads: "Jordan again led the league in scoring during the 1987–88 season, averaging 35.0 ppg on 53.5% shooting,[40] and he won his first league MVP Award. He was also named the NBA Defensive Player of the Year...". A seemingly important detail left out was that this was the first time a player won both MVP and DPOY in the same season in NBA history (and has only, as of 2022, been repeated twice). I don't have permissions to edit this page, but could this detail be added? https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/players-named-mvp-and-dpoy-in-same-season

AP Athlete of the Decade

MJ was named AP Athlete of the Decade in the 90s.This should be added in the list of career highlights and awards. similar to Lebron James wiki page. 2003:F5:CF2D:C509:FF74:E8AE:93D8:56EB (talk) 10:50, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We would need a reliable source to add that into the article. The Associated Press Athlete of the Year article doesn't have any sourcing for Athlete of the Decade winners, and I couldn't find a reference in a quick Google search. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:19, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Greatest player

There's discussion at Talk:Wilt Chamberlain § RfC: Can Wilt Chamberlain be called the greatest player of all-time? about the suitability of NBA.com's statement in Jordan's lead: By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time.

If something like this were to stay in the lead, we should be looking for mainstream sources that assess that he is "widely considered" the greatest, if he still even is. A fair cutoff might be sources leading up to James becoming the all-time leading scorer (or after). Here's some sources I've found:

"Now, he’s widely regarded as the greatest basketball player of all-time." USA Today. May 7, 2024.
"Widely considered the greatest basketball player of all time, Michael Jordan won six NBA titles with the Chicago Bulls and is an icon in both sports and business." Forbes.com. December 20, 2024,
"Michael Jordan is widely considered to be the greatest basketball player of all time." USA Basketball. November 25, 2015.
"There aren’t many stars who can boast about besting Michael Jordan, widely regarded as the greatest of all time by most basketball fans." Hoops Hype. November 9, 2024.
"While Michael Jordan won the “Greatest of All Time” category for the third consecutive time, his once-massive lead over LeBron James has shrunk significantly with every passing poll." The Athletic. April 23, 2024.

—Bagumba (talk) 10:05, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Don't think USA Basketball is an independent source since it's a governing body and being published in 2015 makes it outdated for considering LeBron. Is Hoops Hype reliable? Another caveat about that source is that it attributes the claim to "most basketball fans" rather than making an authoritative statement in its own voice, or at least attributing it to scholarship rather than fans. The second-to-last paragraph of WP:WEIGHT says (emphasis mine)

Keep in mind that, in determining proper weight, we consider a viewpoint's prevalence in reliable sources, not its prevalence among Wikipedia editors or the general public.

Though I suppose if that source is reliable, it might be usable to support something like "most basketball fans consider Jordan the greatest player of all-time". Left guide (talk) 08:19, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Source

The NBA is responsible for ensuring the integrity of former and current players impact and accolades. In Michael Jordan’s biography, the line from NBA.com “By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time”should still be there until NBA.com changes it. There are the experts of their product unless another basketball association overtakes it. Source:https://www.nba.com/news/history-nba-legend-michael-jordan Clifmantic (talk) 03:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And Chamberlain's NBA.com legacy says he's the greatest. At Talk:Wilt Chamberlain the discussion leaned towards removing them both. Subjective water cooler stuff to sell magazines and newsprint. You created a new account just for this? Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:54, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The exact Chamberlain quote from NBA.com is Asked to name the greatest players ever to play basketball, most fans and aficionados would put Wilt Chamberlain at or near the top of the list.[1] That statement has been used at least since 1999.[2] It doesn't specify how many place him at the top, presumably few now. —Bagumba (talk) 10:12, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Fyunck(click) and Bagumba: There's clearly a recency bias every time a new great player comes and old great players go, so it's a good solution to not mention such hypes in the leading paragraph. But now it's thematically undue that Jordan, James and Chemberlain aren't considered 'one of the greatest' in the lead, whereas players like Bryant, O'Neil, Jokić and Antetokounmpo are. If we're consistent in omitting it, one should go and vet all articles.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

IMO, "one of the greatest" is redundant for former players if they've been inducted into the Hall of Fame. —Bagumba (talk) 19:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Being inducted into the Hall of Fame doesn't indicate 'one of the greatest', unless there are reliable independent sources supporting that claim.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:42, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Then just write "He was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame" (though I think most assume an inductee was considered by voters to be among the top X in the sport) —Bagumba (talk) 12:56, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Those others should also be vetted and that fluff placed in a legacy-type section. A small historical overview section is exactly where you would place the quotes of greatness. I think the only time I would relent on that would be with NHL's "Wayne Gretzky" where the entire league retired his number as the greatest. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:46, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of discussion relating to this page

Due to recent edits, there's nothing relevant to inline tag in the lead, so this is a notice that there is a discussion at WT:NBA#Discussion on allowing "greatest" in the lead of all NBA players which pertains to this article. Left guide (talk) 08:30, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Specifically, the edit removing His profile on the NBA website states, "By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time."[3] —Bagumba (talk) 08:36, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

POV lead tag

{{POV lead}} tag added due to pushback at WT:NBA over recent removals. Willing to remove the tag once a consensus is reached on how to treat "greatest" claims in the lead for this article. Left guide (talk) 07:57, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]